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Purpose Project
Do you feel like you're supposed to do something different with your life, but you're not quite sure what to do? If so, you've come to the right place. Purpose Project is a research study designed to explore the topic of purpose from all different angles. Through this research we hope you will discover and realize your unique life's purpose.
Purpose Project
S2E14: Season Finale with Adam Binkerd
In the season finale of Purpose Project, host Leslie Pagel explores the concept of purpose in the workplace with Adam Binkerd, founder of 240Solutions. Over the course of this conversation, Adam shares how his decade of experience and research has shaped his views on organizational culture, focusing on the elements of belonging, vulnerability, and shared purpose. They delve into the roles of individual purpose and shared purpose within a business environment, discussing how leaders can align these to enhance organizational health. Both Leslie and Adam reflect on their personal journeys and emphasize the importance of making employees feel valued and purposeful. This episode provides insightful advice for leaders on fostering purpose and fulfilling human experiences within their teams.
00:00 Welcome to the Season Finale
00:25 Meet Adam Binkerd: Founder of 240Solutions
02:58 The Mission of 240Solutions
08:20 Understanding the Human Experience at Work
12:40 The Role of Shared Purpose in Organizations
15:45 Aligning Individual and Shared Purpose
21:08 The Responsibility of Purpose
29:33 Simplifying Purpose in Society
33:38 Teaching Purpose to Youth
36:00 Client Work and Culture Building
38:37 Leadership and Employee Purpose
39:15 Overcoming Insecurity in Leadership
49:27 Personal Journey to Purpose
54:15 Advice for Leaders on Purpose
56:45 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
For more content like this, check out Leading Adam: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH4_TcZd75g&t=15s
Purpose Project is a research study on the topic of life's purpose. You can follow along in the making of Purpose Project:
Instagram: @purpose.project
LinkedIn: @purposeproject-media
TikTok: @purpose.project
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Welcome to the Season Finale of Purpose Project. I am your host, Leslie Pagel. This season we have been exploring the topic of purpose in the workplace. We've been looking at what purpose looks like, how it shows up in the impact that purpose has when it's done well. In this final episode, I sit down with Adam Binkerd, founder of 240Solutions. Adam brings a perspective on this topic that's formed from over a decade of knowledge, research, and hands-on experience working with business leaders to help them unlock the human experience in the workplace. Whether you're a founder, a frontline manager, or simply someone who's looking to find more meaning in your work, this episode is for you. Let's take a listen.
Leslie:Adam, thank you for being on Purpose Project. Yeah. I'm looking forward to learning from you and exploring this topic of purpose in the workplace.
Adam:Yeah, I'm looking forward to the conversation. It feels familiar. It seems like we've done this before. Huh?
Leslie:We have actually.
Adam:Yeah. In studio. I sat over there though, so, uh, yeah. This is, uh, this is good. It feels comfortable. Almost feels like we're both at home. Mm-hmm. So there's no home corn advantage. Not that it's a competition. I
Leslie:like that. Yeah.
Adam:Yeah.
Leslie:Well, before we get into the topic of purpose in the workplace, tell us a little bit about who you are personally and professionally.
Adam:Yeah, so personally, I'd say probably three primary components to understanding Adam. Uh, I'm a follower of Christ. I am a husband and a father. Everything that I do in my life comes from one of those three things. Mm. And so as a, as a person, it's, it's really that, it's pretty simple. Mm-hmm. Um, I love, you know, on the hobby side of the personal, uh, I am, uh, the quintessential man's man. I love construction. I like working on cars. Uh, if it goes fast and has a motor, I want to, I wanna mess with it. Um, guns, you name it, I am, I'm into it. And, um, that's probably my hobby life. But. Uh, that's the selfish side of my world. Uh, but the unselfish side is, is, uh, trying to be a servant in the community. Um, to be a good husband and to be a, to be an incredible father. Yeah, so that's the personal side. Professionally, I am a consultant. Uh, own and operate my own business. Mm-hmm. Um, and have been doing that now I'm in my fifth year and have beat the statistics Nice. As a business. Congratulations. And that feels great. Uh, but it's a, it's a constant claw to, uh, to stay relevant. Mm-hmm. Um, but that's, that's kind of the sum total here of me. Yeah. The personal and professional.
Leslie:Tell us a little bit about your consulting business.'cause that's one of the reasons why I was so excited to have you on the show.
Adam:Yeah. So our, uh, our business, uh, 240Solutions, uh, we focus primarily on helping organizational culture. Mm-hmm. Uh, and that's a broad term and I think, uh, a lot of people kind of process through, well, we do employee engagement, but that's really not what we do. Uh, what we've tried to do is cook organizational culture down to its fundamental base, uh, which is the, the result of a healthy human experience. So what we consult on mostly is how do you improve the human experience at work? And to do that, it's, it's fundamentally comprised of three components that we focus on, which is belonging, vulnerability, and shared purpose. And so our work really kind of centers on that. So if an organization's interest or, or a leader's interest for their team is not, um, their highest interest is not a healthy human experience. I'm not your guy, you know? So that's what we do in the broad sense. But as anything, there's a lot of practical things that we do underneath of that, like leader development and training. Okay. And facilitation and speaking. You know, there's all these things, but what we're trying to do is improve the health, uh, improve the human experience, uh, at work.
Leslie:Yeah.
Adam:So,
Leslie:and you talked a little bit about the type of client in terms of. Their motivation, but any other characteristics of your clients?
Adam:Um, no. You know, I get asked in the beginning, I used to get asked, what's your vertical? You know? Okay. Everybody wants to know what your vertical is. And, you know, verticals are important for scale. I don't know that I'm aiming for scale. I think I'm aiming for impact. And so the only. Um, similarity, I'd say between every company or group that I've worked with is the intent and heart of the leader. Okay. Uh, they, they, they want to understand the value of their team mm-hmm. Or their organization, the people in their organization, beyond the work that they do. So there's a value that you bring, right? I sit down in the chair, I make X widget. But there's a value that that is in you. Mm-hmm. And the leaders I'm working with are interested in that, the human capital sitting in their space, um, that doesn't come out necessarily in the way they process spreadsheets or, you know, put together marketing plans or whatever the case. Right. Uh, so it's, it's really the heart of the leader. And, and because of that, we've worked across, uh, multiple industries from municipalities to restaurants to education.
Leslie:Okay.
Adam:And, and still are.
Leslie:Yeah.
Adam:Absolutely. Love it.
Leslie:So what causes a leader? Are you typically working with the CEO or president or who, who's typically come reaching out to you?
Adam:Yeah. It, it is almost always, uh, an executive. Okay. Almost always. Uh, we've tried, I've had a few that started with the, uh, HR, head of HR uhhuh. Um, those are harder. Okay. Uh, because really without executive sponsorship, it doesn't really get any traction. Mm-hmm. Um, but usually it is the, uh, company's executive or someone on the executive team. Okay. That kind of brings it and then, uh, brings us in it. A lot of times it starts with me going to speak somewhere. Okay. And then they're like, why don't you come back and talk to our group? And then it turns into a client or partner relationship.
Leslie:Okay. Okay. And what is the problem that they typically are trying to solve? Why are they pulling you in besides just like, you know, they've got this, this heart for their people and that type of thing. Right? But. But is there a business problem that they're trying to solve?
Adam:It's funny you asked that because I, when I started, I thought I was gonna get calls or engagements by people that just had this godawful culture. You know, Uhhuh like we, we really want it to be better'cause we're losing people by the droves or, or something. Um, and that's rarely the case. I've worked with teams that have retention issues and some of the problems they're trying to solve is apps, absenteeism or, uh, their. They're trying to improve just the, the overall sense of satisfaction mm-hmm. In the, in the workforce. But by and large, it's a company that says we have a good culture, but there's something we're missing. Oh. And typically what it is when we get in and we start doing our work is because they focused on, on all the things that really do make up, uh, traditional employee engagement. Okay. Which is kind of the, the sub term for healthy culture. And, and those things are, are good. They're not wrong, uh, but they're also not the level lower, which is what we're focused on, which is the human experience. Mm-hmm. And so it leaves some stuff to be desired. And so usually the client is saying, we've got a really good culture. I. But there's something about what you do, something about what you said, that we think you can help us be better than what we are. And those are great groups to work with.'cause they, they almost intuitively get it. Mm-hmm. Before we even start.
Leslie:Hmm. So. There's so much I wanna peel back. That's all right. Go for it. Let's do
Adam:this. I mean, we got time, right? It's just us.
Leslie:So they've been focused on employee engagement, but you're going underneath that to the human experience. What, what does that mean? Mm-hmm. What does the human experience mean?
Adam:Yeah. So I, I'm a guy who always likes to, you said, peel back the onion. Mm-hmm. I like to keep pulling back until I have a source, um, of something. Mm-hmm. Right. So I'm never satisfied with, uh, take leader development, for example. Um, I can teach a leader to be good at conflict resolution, but a better plan is to help them see why. They struggle to engage conflict resolution. Right. So if I can get to that, they'll do conflict resolution better, right? And so it's always trying to work back to what is the, what is the source of this stuff? And, and we look at the way organizations are comprised. Nothing in an organization happens without human engagement. Mm-hmm. And so it's, it's going to the point of saying I've been in, uh, healthy employee engagement areas. And they have competitive wages, and they have flexible schedules and uh, cool, um, you know, coke machines and, and coffee accessible to me all day long and those are great. Mm-hmm. But there's still a piece of me as a human that is asking the question, do I matter? Right. And does what I do matter. And to me that's the source. Like how do we understand that? And so that's the very base human level. Mm-hmm. Uh, that organizations often miss because they do have to be responsible for competitive wages and employee benefit packages and, and, uh, all these different things. And it can re really get kind of lost in the process that at the same time. You could give me, uh, as an employee, you could give me a 30% raise. Right? And I'm gonna be thrilled to death. And nine to 12 months later, I'm gonna be thinking, I think I'm underpaid. I'm not sure I wanna be here anymore. Mm-hmm. And they're not underpaid and they don't feel that way. But what they're saying is, I'm not sure I matter here. Mm-hmm. And if we can solve that, we actually are solving the employee retention challenge. Mm-hmm. And, and at that point, if you solve that. You, you're pouring into someone and saying, you matter here and what you do matters. And then when my customer en engages that employee, they can give that to them also. Right. And ultimately, as a business owner, that's what I want. I want my original vision to be the, we're we are considered the best in our class, whatever that might be. And so sometimes the customer is, is a consumer, and other times it's B2B. Right. Either way, I want them to feel like you're the only ones that matter here. And the only way to do that is to make sure my team knows they matter.
Leslie:Right.
Adam:And that gets harder and harder the larger our teams get. Mm-hmm.
Leslie:So what I heard there is human experience is about having a sense of purpose. Mm-hmm. You used the word matter. Mm-hmm. Um. But I think of that word a lot. Uh, I think of that in a lot in terms of purpose, like feeling like there's, uh, a, a meaning a reason for, for the work that I'm doing.
Adam:Right.
Leslie:Is that a fair?
Adam:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, one of the three components of a healthy human experience is shared purpose. Mm-hmm. And. I think when you were, uh, when you joined us on leading Adam, those worlds start to Yeah. Fold over one another because you can't have shared purpose unless you have purpose as an individual. Yeah. Right. So, yeah. I mean, having purpose, I think mattering is different than purpose because mattering has a component of self concept and self image in it. Yeah. Purpose does not. Mm-hmm. But I need purpose. To express my mattering. Right, right. So I do think it's very, uh, fundamentally they are, they're tied together. They're very, very close, which is why it's included as a portion of what we call the human experience.
Leslie:Yeah. So you talked about shared purpose there. Mm-hmm. And one of the things that I've been curious to understand is there's individual purpose. You know, me as Leslie, my purpose is, X, Y, Z. Right. But then when we get into an organization and we're working mm-hmm. With other people, it, it, there's this other thing of shared purpose. Mm-hmm. How does shared purpose work with individual purpose? Or does it?
Adam:I think it does. I, I think, I think shared purpose ties us together. Um, so I. How do I explain this? I think if, um, let's start at the individual level.'cause for me, I think in the workplace, uh, individual purpose shows up in meaningful production. Mm-hmm. So when I've, when I've produced in a day and that production is understood to me as meaningful, not, not to my supervisor, not to the CEO. But to me, and I look at the work I did that day and say, that mattered, Uhhuh, why did it matter? Because of a, because of a mission statement, right? Because of, um, um, a customer need. Right? There was something we're aiming at, and I think that's where our individual purpose collides. Mm-hmm. And begins to marry really well with shared purpose. And I think it's so, uh, to me, I would layer it as a. Individual purpose is meaningful production. Mm-hmm. That produces collaborative conquering. So I think in a, in a team purpose looks like collaborative conquering. Okay. You know, if, if we don't come together to solve whatever that thing is, did we really become a team? Did we function as a team? Because a, a team can function in its individual parts. It's not really a team. Right? Right. We've, I think we've mislabeled that in a lot of ways and we go, well, because you're in the same department, you're a team Uhhuh. Well, that's not necessarily true. So I think they kind of roll up together. Individual purpose, you know, when I, I do meaningful production that contributes to a collaborative conquering Right. We then have fulfilled. The mission Uhhuh for a client or the organization, and now we have three levels of, of purpose. Okay. The highest being shared
Leslie:purpose. Right, right. Okay. Um, it's still connected. And that example, the meaningful contribution that I make mm-hmm. Is connected to the broader shared purpose of the organization. Mm-hmm. In that regard.
Adam:Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'd say in best case, I'm sure through your, uh, conversations and your research, you've, you've encountered individuals who don't feel like their purpose aligns with that Right. Organization or company they work in. Mm-hmm. And so it doesn't always work that way. Right. But I think that's what we're, I think that's what we're craving, uh, to do Uhhuh is when those things come in alignment, there is extreme fulfillment. Yeah. Personally. Yeah. And I, I think if you were to take, we were talking just a little bit ago about. Wow. Purpose, you know, I'm talking about mattering. Is that purpose? Mm-hmm. Well, I think it's a second cousin to it, right? Yeah. That mattering and includes the way I view myself and, and who I am, my identity almost. Mm-hmm. And I can express that identity through a purpose. And when I do that, and it aligns with doing that in a community, which we would call shared purpose. Yeah. We've maximized fulfillment. Mm-hmm. And I think fulfillment is something we're all kind of chasing, and we do it in different ways. Mm-hmm. But I think that's where it comes from, because that's kind of how we were designed right, is to really. Do together. Right. Uh, so I can, I can be purposeful and have purpose myself, but something in me, there's a void. Mm-hmm. Because I want to, uh, I want to really come into community. Right. And achieve together.
Leslie:Yeah. Yeah. So who owns Shared Purpose in a business?
Adam:Hmm. That's a good question. Um. Okay. So I have some thoughts, but, but I want to, I wanna make sure we're working on the same terms. Yeah.
Leslie:Yeah.
Adam:When you say owns, what do you, how do you process that?
Leslie:Or I, so I think of that as like, what would be the task? So as an owner, I'm responsible for, um, identifying the purpose, for sharing the purpose, for activating the purpose. Mm-hmm. Um. For living out the purpose.
Adam:Right. So it's, it's almost, um, who's, who's driving it? Right. Who's
Leslie:or responsible for maybe Yeah. Responsible for
Adam:who's observing it, who's, who's trying to make sure it's happening. Right, right. So, okay. So I, I think it's, I think there has to be some intentionality, which comes from the top. Right in an, in an organization. And I think that has to be, uh, really the highest level of responsibility. And that can look a lot different in different organizations. You know, the CEO isn't always the top dog. Sometimes there's a governing board that he responds to, uh, he or she. Um, so I would, I would think first, uh, that that's why executive sponsorship matters. Yeah. I think there has to be intentionality to. Confidently and, and clearly state we will X. Mm-hmm. Uh, I think of Paul Quinn College. Uh, Dr. LL is the president of Paul Paul Quinn College and has been now for maybe a decade. Um, when he took over, he went through a process by which he simplified the university's mission. He simplified it from you. You've seen mission statements, uhhuh, especially university mission statements. They, they're so lengthy and he cut it down and it's quite literally their mission is end poverty. I think there's an element of responsibility in the person at the top to not change the mission statement, but to simplify it to say, at the end of the day, if you're questioning, what do I do in this situation? Does it fulfill this? Right? And he made it very simple. Mm-hmm. Right. If what we're doing does not align to ultimately diminish poverty. For the ultimate goal of ending it. Mm-hmm. Then it's the wrong thing. Mm-hmm. And I think, so the who owns Shared Purpose, all of us own it. Mm-hmm. But somebody has to call it and say, this is the most important thing here. Right. And I think that's why at some point, someone's doing that. And, and as an individual level, right. When I'm looking for meaningful production mm-hmm. Uh, as I would process individual purpose. I'm thinking this doesn't matter. Well, that's the moment I need to relocate. Mm-hmm. Right. And that's, I think that's where we're struggling a little bit in our workforce is we've got people saying, no, I want it to be this. Well, it's not your company, so move on. Right. Uh, we're wanting to tell people what they should tell us, our purposes. Mm-hmm. And so there's this shared obligation there that in shared purpose, uh, if I don't align. With what's being said, the simplified this matters here, um, then I should probably find something else. And that's not a bad thing. Yeah. It just means now I have part of the obligation. Right, right. Because, uh, I can only, I can only say so confidently, charismatically, clearly, whatever. This is what matters here so many times in so many different ways. And if it doesn't move you, it probably never will.
Leslie:Yeah.
Adam:Um, and that's, uh, and that's gotta be okay. Mm-hmm.
Leslie:So I hear that we all own purpose. We all own the shared purpose.
Adam:Mm-hmm.
Leslie:But there has to be someone, typically an executive that is, simplifying the purpose for the organization. Mm-hmm. And, keeping it top of mind and, and so that it, so that everyone can own it.
Adam:Right.
Leslie:Um, and there's a a lot of ways that they could do that. The other thing I heard is that. There's also shared responsibility. Mm. Yeah. And how I heard that is okay. The, the team, the people have a responsibility of making decisions based on the purpose. Mm-hmm. That is set. But also the individual has a responsibility in terms of, if I'm not in alignment with this. Yeah, I have a responsibility too.
Adam:Mm-hmm. Have you, I'm curious because, uh, you, one of the things you said that I was excited about,'cause I know we've got plenty of time to have a conversation, was that, is that this is a conversation Uhhuh, right? And I like that part. So let's turn it into a conversation now. Okay. Because we got a little, they all, they, your audience knows you now they know me. Um, but we're both comfortable with the mic and all of that, so. Mm-hmm. I'm curious in that when you think of your journey. Uh, across your professions, has there, has there been moments where you go, I don't wanna line here mm-hmm. And, and to where you didn't take action? Oh yeah. Yeah. And then you just stayed? Yeah. What was that like for you? And it, was there any point where you finally decided to take ownership? You said responsibility, Uhhuh, take responsibility for that and leave. Uh, or did you, did it end up ending without your, yeah, without your, uh, decision? I would
Leslie:say, um, it ended up ending without me making that decision.
Adam:Okay.
Leslie:Um, and, and ultimately the right outcome. Happened.
Adam:Okay.
Leslie:It just, it wasn't an outcome that I created. And so I've learned through that because now I'm like, oh my gosh. Mm-hmm. I, I have a respon, I had a responsibility in this. Yeah. And I chose not to. I chose to, um, to just, you know, hope for the best. Right. You know, wait it out. It'll fix itself. Yes. Yeah. And ultimately, um, you know, I, I'm no longer there, not by my, my doing so, and I'm grateful for that. So
Adam:not by my doing so Were you fired?
Leslie:I wasn't, uh, I wasn't fired for performance reasons. Right. Yeah.
Adam:Yeah. I figure anyone worth their salt, uh, in life has been fired. Mm-hmm. Uh, because I think. That's not always true. Right. I mean, the first job I was ever let go from is because of absenteeism. Oh. Which could seem to show up, um, to work on time. Okay. You know, I was 19 years old and an idiot Uhhuh. So, but after that I've been fired two or three more times after that. And it was always because I knew where I was trying to go and it didn't fit. Yeah. And I think there's something really interesting about that.'cause you talked about the responsibility, you used that word. To me as I'm pushing through in those situations, um, I'm not gonna compromise on some things uhhuh, that I believe that are core to me, right? Um, that doesn't mean I'm gonna do a certain thing because the company wants it done this way, and I'm gonna do it this way. I don't mean it that way. I mean, when it comes down to what they're asking of me is contrary to what I believe is who I am. Right. I. What I really, um, am aiming to give into the world, right? And so I, I have been fired more than once. One of them was just to, and I say misalignment of purpose and the, I won't talk about the company, but what their, what their goal was was the production of print and promotional items.
Leslie:Yeah.
Adam:Um, and I was a leader in that organization and. Uh, the impasse came when I wasn't willing to basically become a micromanager. Mm-hmm. I wanted to lead a different way, and they said, well, you'll, you'll do this, this, and this. And I said, I won't, and now I'm out. Right. But that was an absolute collision of purpose. Mm-hmm. Because, you know, I'm not, I'm not in the world to produce, uh, print and promotional items. Right. I'm not in the world to educate. People, I'm not in the world to be a consultant. Mm-hmm. I'm in the world to value people. Right. And I wasn't willing to devalue those who I was working with by reducing them to less than a competent adult. Right. In the way that I managed. Mm-hmm. And so now at this point, there's an impasse. My purpose is going this way, theirs is going this way. Well, there's only one result. Yeah. You know, and, and I got axed. Yeah. And I'm cool with it. Yeah. Like, I'm still friends with the CO Yeah. It doesn't, it's, it doesn't create angst in me. I mean, it was, it was never fun to be let go. Right. But I think that's the responsibility side of it.
Leslie:Absolutely. Uh,
Adam:that my responsibility isn't necessarily to just comply to the purpose. Mm-hmm. It's. To understand my purpose, right. And then be uncompromising in the pursuit of that. And if it aligns with a company at some point, that's ultimate fulfillment, right? And so I think we've, in some ways, we've allowed work to become the source of purpose. And it's foolish. It's absolutely shortsighted and. And the longer we do that, the more we look at the obligation of the employer to give me purpose. Right. And that's not me Uhuh, you know? So I don't know. That was a bit of a rabbit trail, but, no, I was curious'cause uh, I figured since you, uh, you said there's a responsibility Yeah. That had to be some point where you're, you had a collision as well.
Leslie:Well, I've just, through this work I have, um. I have learned more about that word responsibility, and that's the word that I've chosen to use. But, um, we, that word in and of itself feels heavy. You know, it feels like a weight, you know, I'm responsible, I've gotta carry, you know, and what I've come to realize is that, um, while it is something that you carry. The outcome of that is freedom. We talked about this on your episode, on Yeah. On your podcast. Yeah. And so I've, I don't look at it as a weight anymore. I look at it as my path to feeling free. Hmm. And, and when I look at it that way, every Monday morning, I'm excited about going to work because I've taken responsibility to understand and align
Adam:right
Leslie:between. My purpose in the work that I'm doing and how I can fulfill my purpose through my work. Yeah. And it's not always a hundred percent. Yeah. But I've taken that responsibility of it and, and I know that that's, that's why I feel the way I do. Mm-hmm.
Adam:You
Leslie:know?
Adam:Well, you talk about, uh, responsibility is a weight, I think the term itself, like what is my purpose? Mm-hmm. I, I think that's a weight that is unduly put on us. Yeah. We, we put it on ourselves, Uhhuh, but it really comes from societal expectation. Mm-hmm. Right. From, from the moment we're, especially now, I mean, you get into even just primary school and there, it's kind of all trying to channel towards the fulfillment of some purpose that all you're trying to do is like. Color with the crayons, you know? And everything seems to be trying to channel you there. And I think in a lot of ways, if we want purpose to become more prevalent in our society, genuine purpose in people, I think we've gotta simplify it to say this shouldn't be burdensome. Right, right. It's, I think, I don't even. I don't process my purpose as doing my purpose is, is more of a being Yeah. You know, than, than it is, than it is action or practical. Yeah. Uh, and then it should inform my practical. Mm-hmm. But it's not, it's not that. And I think too many times. Um, we put that especially on high school, like guide. You think of guidance counselors, Uhhuh, what do you want to do with your life, you know, and you're 16 years old and you're going, I don't know, I wanna drive my car, right? I want to date. I'm hoping to see this movie this weekend. You know? Um. That was old. That was old school. I don't think that's anymore. I don't think that's what's happening these days, but that's what I wanted to do. And they're asking me, what are you gonna do with your life? Mm-hmm. I have no idea. Right. Well, I think a better question is who do you wanna be? Yeah. Because my purpose is tied to that. Yes. And that's freeing. Yeah. Because I can be that. Mm-hmm. Whether I'm employed or unemployed. Mm-hmm. Married or not married. Um, family or no family. I can be who I want to be as a human being. So yeah, maybe the weight of purpose alone.
Leslie:Yeah, we need to definitely take some of that weight off because, um, that is, that has definitely been, been a consistent theme across this podcast is purpose doesn't have to be this big, grand thing. Right. And it doesn't have to be once in a lifetime, you know? Yeah. I have a purpose. When I, um, come, come here for this, for this recording, you know? Right. There's purpose in all kinds of things. Yeah. And it's, um, it is a way of being. Mm-hmm. You know, instead of doing
Adam:well. So let's process it through, you know, I have a business and, um, I think that's maybe where we get off is like, what is my, we get off track is what is my purpose. Mm-hmm. We, we automatically go to what am I gonna achieve? Okay. In life, right? Mm-hmm. So I think it is ultimately semantics. So let's work it backwards as a business. You know, 240 Solution is, if you ask me what is your vision, I. Well, my vision's to change the world. Yeah. So if you put that, you go, geez, you talk about weight, because I'm, I mean that legitimately.
Leslie:Mm-hmm.
Adam:Right. I don't mean change my family dynamic. I've done that already.
Leslie:Yeah.
Adam:I mean, change the literal world to where they write about what happened. Right. That's my vision. Yeah. Um, my mission then is to help leaders elevate the value, understand, and elevate the value of the human. In their organization.
Leslie:Yeah.
Adam:That's my mission. Mm-hmm. But when you cook it down to my purpose is to make sure everyone I encounter feels like they matter. Yeah. And that's not heavy at all, because I'm gonna go to the gas station and I'm gonna meet a clerk who probably hasn't been called by their first name all day long. Yeah. And that's so easy for me to, thanks James. Yeah. Appreciate you. Mm-hmm. That's my purpose. Right. And if I do that consistently over time. I will stack that up to amass a group of people that may never know my name that felt like they mattered. Yeah. And if someone matters, they will help someone else matter. Mm-hmm. And so for me, I take that, that high and lofty and weighty goal of change the world. Yeah. And I ultimately translate it down to transformed lives. Transformed worlds. Yeah. All I have to be interested in. It's the one I'm sitting with. Right. Because that's the one that really matters. Yeah. So I think we, we have to teach, uh, because this isn't natural. Right. Societal pressure for purpose is too big to hope. Our gen, our youth get this. Yeah. We need to teach them that. No purpose is is simple. Yeah. Right. It's. It is understanding who you want to be right at the end of the day. Yeah. And I think we should, I think we should start taking kids to more funerals. Mm-hmm. Right? I mean, yeah, this sounds weird. Like that's what you're thing to the one to say that. What a weird to say, Adam. I get made fun of that. Some of my friends are like, I, I do personally enjoy funerals more than I do weddings. Mm-hmm. Um, and it's a simple reason. Uh, a funeral is a celebration of all that a person was. Yeah. And, and I'm inspired, I move to live differently because my end is coming at some point. Mm-hmm. Whereas a wedding is the beginning of a lot of hard work. Yeah. And those two things are different for me. Right. Yeah. Um, but in some ways, again, it's a weird encouragement, but, you know, being inspired by people who did something.
Leslie:Do
Adam:I live my life like that? What's gonna be said someday when someone stands up there and says, Adam Pinkerd was, I hope they say I. Someone who cared about people. Right. Yeah. You know, and that I'm sure they will. Yeah. That informs the way I live my life. Exactly. So it was a bit of a tangent. Season one,
Leslie:we had, um, uh, someone who worked in hospice care on the Okay. Podcast, and she talked a lot of, she also encouraged us to take our kids to more funerals and to talk about death. Yeah. And to talk about what do I want people to, how do I wanna be remembered? Mm-hmm. Um, and so I'm not
Adam:the only morbid guest you've had, is that what you're saying? No. No. Okay. I feel like when I said that I should grow my hair out, dye it black and wear a trench coat, but that's not what I mean. I, I not death is is tragic. Yeah. And loss is horrible. Uh, but there's something so beautiful in hearing the sum total of someone's life. Yeah. Uh, unless it didn't add up to much. Yeah. Yeah. And then it's really sad. Yeah. So,
Leslie:so going back to your work, the work that you do mm-hmm. Because you just described your business, the vision mm-hmm. The mission, the purpose is, are you working with your clients to do that for them? Are you working with them to, on the vision, mission, and then kind of the, the individual purpose or not?
Adam:I would say no.
Leslie:Okay.
Adam:Um, I'm not spending a lot of time doing that because again, what they're asking is we've got a good culture. Mm-hmm. How do we make it a great culture? And so I think practically speaking, uh, we do a lot of leader development. I do a lot of coaching. Okay. Individual coaching. And so as I'm working through those Sure. I'm trying to help them practically understand how do you connect. The department's purpose, the, the company's purpose to the doing that's happening down here. Right. So there's a practical component, but in, in regards to helping them kind of rethink their vision, mission, and purpose. Definitely not, um, if something were to adapt because of that mm-hmm. That would be great. But mm-hmm. We're not, I don't consider myself an expert in those, uh, in those areas. Okay. Uh, so not, not really a focus.
Leslie:Okay. Mm-hmm. So I've envisioned this, intersection of circles. So one circle is the company purpose or this shared purpose, the team purpose. Mm-hmm. And the other is the individual purpose. Yeah. And I've been wondering. In order to accomplish our goals, our vision, our mission, and contribute here. Obviously the best is when they're totally overlapped, you know? Sure. That's the best. Yeah. But that, you know,
Adam:that's like a team of one.
Leslie:That's
Adam:right. I mean, let's be honest, that's gonna be one person. Yes.
Leslie:So, but I've been wondering is if, can I just, could you just get. Employees to really help connect their being, you know, who they wanna be in the world mm-hmm. To the work that they do. Mm-hmm. As a way of moving forward or do I really need to focus on this kind of overlapping of the, of the two circles? Does that make sense?
Adam:I think so. Um. Ask it one more time. I think so. And I'm processing some thoughts. Yeah. So say it one more time. Okay.
Leslie:So as a business leader, can I accelerate my business performance mm-hmm. By putting more emphasis. On the employee's purpose. Mm-hmm. And activating that in their job.
Adam:Yes.
Leslie:Versus the organizational purpose. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah.
Adam:Yes. I think the answer is yes, and I, well, let me say that more confidently. Yes. The answer's yes. I don't think it's, yes, I know it's, yes. Um, I. So the question then becomes why don't people do it?
Leslie:Right? Yes.
Adam:Because if I pour into you to pursue and understand your purpose, you might leave me. Mm. Right. So the reluctance of a CEO or team leader or anything to build into people purpose that might take them somewhere else, right. Is actually insecurity. Yeah. And so when. In this world, we have to, to really see it differently. I, I worked in an organization once, uh, where I was not, at the time, I was not a hiring manager. I was the head of a department of one. And so I didn't have to hire anyone at that point. Uh, but I was asked to help interview, uh, on some other, for other departments, um, as they were going to be making new hires. And I remember coming out of an interview where I thought, that's the person, my goodness, that is the person. And we sat down in the debrief and one of the hiring managers said, man, they're awesome. They would be great, but they won't stay. And I thought, what a stupid reason not to hire someone. Mm-hmm. You know, and, and again, I know that sounds a little bit harsh, but that's me. Right? If the person that I hire that's a per a beautiful fit. Because they bring everything we need, but they're going to leave, they'll make me better in six months than someone who comes and stays for two or three years. Mm-hmm. And we've gotta be okay with that. And I don't think we are generally speaking. So ultimately it requires a kind of this altruistic shift of people leading companies to say what matters is that you are. Becoming who you were always intended to be. Mm-hmm. Right? Your original created design and value to this world that's most important to me. Mm-hmm. But it's not, it's only important to me. If it fulfills that, which I'm trying to do to build my wealth, my, my prominence or whatever, that's always gonna be an imposition to pouring into people's purpose. Yeah. And in part, that's why I've processed to say. If humanity's the highest goal, we have to confront that at some point. Mm-hmm. And so the leaders that I'm working with, we always, at some point there is an intersection to say, if it's really about their humanity, then you can't worry if they'll stay. Right. Because their, their success, their achieving their purpose, fulfillment on this planet might not have anything to do with you other than a brief impasse. Mm-hmm. To, to learn and to grow and to be inspired, to be challenged. But we don't see it that way. Yeah. I see it as what if they leave me? Mm-hmm. And that's really shortsighted.
Leslie:Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. Okay. You helped answer the question and the thing that I've, um, that I was thinking through. As you were responding, we talked earlier about who owns it. Mm-hmm. And I do feel like that's a sense of responsibility for the leaders now hearing you mm-hmm. Is to, um, pour into their people and to have conversations about individual purpose. Yeah. You know, I think back over my career, I have never ever been asked. What is my purpose in life? No, never.
Adam:You know, I've never been asked
Leslie:and, um, and I don't know that it, it needs to even be asked that way, but I've not been asked any shades
Adam:mm-hmm. Of
Leslie:gray around that
Adam:question.
Leslie:Okay. You know what I mean?
Adam:Really. I mean, not even one time you didn't have one inspired leader who asked Leslie, where, where do you want to be? What do you wanna, I've had
Leslie:that, but it's more in the context of like. Where do you wanna be in this job? Doing what you're doing in here? Gotcha. You know what I mean? As opposed to Leslie as like a human on this earth. Mm. What do you care so much about? What do you, you know?
Adam:Mm-hmm.
Leslie:It, it's, it's, it's typically been connected to the job. Yeah. Um, makes, makes sense. I, I have the privilege
Adam:of working closely with one of the highest Chick-fil-A franchise groups in the world. Mm-hmm. And they have one of their leaders. Um, is focused on this very thing. And he says, he says, Adam, our purpose as a franchise is to wholeheartedly help people climb their mountain. And I think that's really rare.
Leslie:Yeah.
Adam:And I think it's honestly why they are one of the highest performing in the world because they've made their intent to help those people that, that put on that name tag and show up at Chick-fil-A to say, it's my pleasure. Their mission isn't to sling chicken. Right. It's to help you climb your mountain. Right. I don't know why we have to see organizations like that do that and then just go, well, it works for them, but it won't work for me. Right. But you're right. It's not, it's not, I, I don't think it's a common question or even series of questions. That's what you're saying, like not even shades of gray, right. Of what's your purpose? That's interesting. I, but across my career, it wasn't anyone I worked for asking me that. Mm-hmm. There were people in my life asking me that.
Leslie:Yeah.
Adam:But not, not my employer.
Leslie:Right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Adam:Huh.
Leslie:Well, and the other thing that just occurred to me in that story of, you know, our, you know, and our franchise at Chick-fil-A, our purpose is to help people climb their mountain. Mm-hmm. That, to me, that sounds so much like leadership. Yeah. You know, one of the things that I'm coming to understand through season two is that purpose is leadership. Mm-hmm. You know, because it is really about putting myself aside Hmm. And, and bringing this group of people. And when I do that, I care about those, you know, I want what's best for
Adam:Yeah. For others, you know? So, can I ask. Can I ask questions? Absolutely. Am I allowed to ask questions? Um, do you think purpose is selfless individual purpose? Do you think individual purpose is selfless?
Leslie:Yeah. So on your episode, I defined purpose. Mm-hmm. And I've added to it.
Adam:Okay, good.
Leslie:So, um, and then I'll answer. So I, I have defined purpose as a constant state of alignment mm-hmm. Between who we are. What we do. That's what I shared on your episode, right? Which is very much about living authentically. Sure. Like, I'm gonna be who I, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna honor who I am and the actions that I take,
Adam:right?
Leslie:The piece I added is constant state of alignment between who I am, the work that I do, and the difference I wanna make in the world. And so when I, when I added that, it very much is living authentically.
Adam:Sure.
Leslie:For others, for a, for a, a bigger purpose. Yeah. Yeah.
Adam:So what I agree with you, but what might someone who's engaged in purposeful doing mm-hmm. But living an authentic look like,'cause that wouldn't be purpose based on your definition, but is there, is there kind of an example to say, well, it might look like this.
Leslie:Yeah, I mean, I could think of, um, people that feel like I need to donate money, not because I want to donate money, but because I want to, or I need to be on this board, this nonprofit board. Not because it's something that I want to do, but because it's going to add to my resume and good pr. Yes. Yeah. Okay.
Adam:I see what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. So maybe then. Purpose, genuine purpose mm-hmm. Is selfless. Mm-hmm. I mean, and how do you, I mean, genuine purpose, what does that even mean? Yeah. Fulfilling purpose maybe. Yeah. Is selfless. Do you, do you think that if someone is pursuing purpose but not finding fulfillment that it is, it is. Probably because that purpose is to, um, selfish. Or do you think it's because there's an inauthenticity in there?
Leslie:Yeah, so I will, I'm going to, um, address one thing first. Okay. And then go to that because I do think that there is an element of purpose that is self selfish.
Adam:Sure. And that makes sense.
Leslie:That is fulfillment. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You know what I mean? I do this because. It makes me feel really good, you know? Yeah, yeah. Right. If there's an element of that Yeah, too, you know, that's fair. So there is an element of that, but I do think someone that is, um, not getting the fulfillment, it could be that'cause,'cause sometimes purpose. Hmm. Um, does get into the doing, you know, I'm trying to create this in the life, in my life, and so I've gotta do these things in order to, and sometimes there's a weight to that. Mm-hmm. Is, um, exhausting and tiring mm-hmm. And all of that. And so it, it can make you feel not fulfilled.
Adam:Sure.
Leslie:Um, in the moment. Yeah. You know, but when you kind of zoom out and look at it, hopefully it does. If it doesn't Yeah. When you zoom out, then something's I think misaligned.
Adam:Sure. That makes sense. I, taking it back to me, you know, I said my purpose is, is simplified to the point that I want everyone that I interact with to feel like they matter. Mm-hmm. Well, that's ultimately takes some preparation. Right. And I think in the preparation is. Preparing for purpose looks more like doing Yeah. For purpose and probably no better example than my own wor my own life. And I, in 2006, December of 2006, I got a vision for my life, Leslie, that changed everything. Mm-hmm. I was still battling addiction at that time. I was trying to get an education and struggling in this process and someone in the, in the room. Was talking about being a world changer and that the university produced world changers. And uh, and then they said before they left, they said one last thing to the room and it was, you can be a world changer. And when this individual, her name's Stacy, when she said this, she was looking at me, she wasn't talking to me, she was talking to the room, but she might as well have been talking to me because I walked out of that room differently that night and I thought. I wanna be a world changer. I believe I can change the world. Yeah. Which is so foolish because I was at the end of a 13 year struggle with addiction. My marriage was falling apart and here I am, audaciously thinking I'm gonna change the world. But it required something of me in that moment. And I think there was a, there was purpose in me birthed, and then I had the obligation. To explore, how do I fulfill that purpose? What does that actually mean for me and what's true of me? Yeah. Because as long as it's an authentic, it's exhausting. Yeah. Because it has to be in alignment. And that's what you're saying. And I think that preparation for me,'cause I went from that moment, I went 14 years straight, pursuing more and more education. To today in doing what I do, I have two master's degrees in leadership and my doctoral coursework done in organizational leadership because of that moment. Yeah. And my purpose then, which was birth in a really, in a really immature and unformed state, was enough for me to effectively draw back the bow. And I think for 14 years I had been drawing back the bow. I. And I think when I stepped out in 2021 to say, I'm ready and I'm gonna start my business, it was me pulling the trigger to release that arrow. Yeah. To say, I have been pouring into myself to do this, and now I have the freedom back to where you started. Purpose gives us freedom. I now have the freedom to competently and confidently help people see that they matter. And no matter what context, I sit from the gas station to the boardroom. Yeah. Uh, I have equipped myself, if you will, to stand with anyone in any conversation and be a value add to them. Yeah. And that took from the very moment, a seed that took watering, it took, it took some pruning, it took a lot of things along the way. But ultimately it, uh, it flourished and it came something now that I hope is bringing value to the world. Yeah. And uh, and it started by believing that I could, when I was standing in a season where I had very little value for myself, let alone value to the world. Yeah. And, uh, I think some beautiful things can come out of some really rocky soil.
Leslie:Yeah. And
Adam:I am a living testament to that.
Leslie:Yeah. We might have to have you back to dig into that because it's a long story. The whole fear, like fear and like how do you get started and, you know, all that, all of that is something that it holds so many people back. Yeah. Um, and so we don't have time for that today. Right. But yeah. Yeah. We'll, we'll be back hopefully. Well,
Adam:I, I'm, I'm an open book and I think there's a lot in that. And the simple answer is do it afraid. Yeah. That's, um, it's the only way to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Fear's an illusion, in my opinion.
Leslie:Yes. So,
Adam:but yeah.
Leslie:Well, we've talked about a lot. Mm-hmm. Let's take a leader out there who's listening, who may mm-hmm. Struggling to get purpose in their team, or, to be. Working together towards a shared purpose? Any advice for that type of leader?
Adam:Yeah, the advice I would give is determine what the purpose is. Determine what that, that thing that you're trying to, to achieve. Because in a business, the. You're in business to, to solve a problem, to close a gap, and ultimately to be profitable in the process. Mm-hmm. But whatever that problem is, is to define it and define it clearly, and then say it, say it emphatically and, and be okay with people saying, that's not me. I, I think what holds us back from saying this is where we're going. I know the way I. Is that we want everyone that's currently with us to believe us and to go to, but they might not. And so I think it's, it's looking, my advice is look in the mirror, become okay, first of the fact that this is what we're gonna do and if people that are currently with me aren't in the pursuit, that's okay. Yeah. And I think that has to start in the mirror looking in your own eyes and asking if you're okay with that. Because it's not as simple as just saying it. Right. Because what will keep you from staying that course is insecurity. That those who I think are necessary in that journey might not be with me. Yeah. In, in six months or a year or whatever. And we've gotta let that go. Um, and uh, and just run after what, what we know matters.'cause that's the alignment you're talking about. Yeah. And, uh, nothing will kill a CEO faster than misalignment. Mm-hmm. They'll burn out in a, in a month, you know. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, that would be mine. Look in the mirror. Decide what it is. Say it with confidence, clarity, and emphasis, and just run. Yeah. And let the people get behind it.
Leslie:All right. You heard him.
Adam:All right.
Leslie:Anything else left unsaid?
Adam:I don't think so. Other than thank you. Uh, you know, you, you joined us and we had, we got into some of these bits and. And got to hear what you're doing and now to be a participant in the research that you're doing. Uh, I appreciate it and have enjoyed the conversation. Yeah. So thank you. And
Leslie:I'll drop a link to our episode on Leading Adam in the show notes.
Adam:Awesome. That'd be great.
Leslie:Wonderful. Thank you for being on Purpose Project.
Adam:Thanks, Leslie.
I am walking away from season two with a deeper understanding of purpose in the workplace, one thing has become crystal clear to me, and Adam touches on this in our conversation here as well, and that is that in order for purpose to live within the workplace, the business has to take the initiative to help each employee connect their personal purpose to the work. And each individual employee has to participate in this process as well. Thank you for joining me this season as we've explored what purpose in the workplace really means. Until next time, stay connected, stay curious, and keep living on purpose.
Leslie:Purpose Project is brought to you for education and for entertainment purposes. This podcast is not intended to replace the advice that you would receive from a licensed therapist or doctor or any other qualified professional.
