Purpose Project

S2E10: Stars of Responsibility with Jim Obermaier

• Leslie Pagel • Season 2 • Episode 10

Share episode

In episode 10 of Purpose Project, Stars of Responsibility, host Leslie Pagel interviews Jim Obermaier, a seasoned leader with over 30 years of experience in various sectors of the US government. Currently serving as the Chief Operating Officer at the Indiana Department of Child Services, Jim shares insights into whether purpose in the government workplace mirrors that outside it. The discussion delves into Jim's personal life, professional journey, and the importance of purpose in both individual and collective contexts within the workplace. Jim emphasizes the responsibility leaders have in fostering purpose among their teams and how aligning individual and organizational purposes can drive meaningful impact. This episode provides valuable lessons in leadership, purpose alignment, and the unique dynamics of working within the government sector.

00:00 Introduction to Episode 10

00:56 Meet Jim Obermaier

05:14 Exploring Life's Purpose and Purpose in the Workplace

10:19 Leadership and Purpose

13:51 Aligning Individual and Collective Purpose

18:44 Uncovering Opportunities Through Dialogue

19:33 Purpose in Government Work

23:11 Comparing Government and Private Sector Work

27:13 Leadership and Purpose

31:06 Advice for People Leaders

33:53 Final Thoughts on Purpose

Purpose Project is a research study on the topic of life's purpose. You can follow along in the making of Purpose Project:
Instagram: @purpose.project
LinkedIn: @purposeproject-media
TikTok: @purpose.project

Captions are auto-generated.

Welcome to episode 10 of Purpose Project Stars of Responsibility. I am your host, Leslie Pagel, and in this episode I sit down with Jim Obermaier. Jim is a seasoned leader with over 30 years of experience serving numerous sectors within the US government. Jim currently serves as a Chief operating officer within, uh, the Indiana Department of Child Services. With so many years of experience working in and around different government agencies, I wanted to sit down with Jim to explore whether purpose in the government workplace mirrors that of purpose outside of the government workplace. And that's exactly what we do in this episode. Let's take a listen.

Leslie:

Jim, thank you so much for being on Purpose Project. I am really looking forward to talking about how purpose shows up in the workplace.

Jim:

All right. Thanks for having me, Leslie.

Leslie:

Let's start with getting to know you. Tell us a little bit about who you are personally and professionally.

Jim:

Oh, oh, sure. Personally live here in Indianapolis. Been been in Hoosier now for about 22, 23 years, which is kind of crazy. My wife's from here, so I'm a transplanted Hoosier by marriage. Um. Have, um, a background in a lot of different things, um, both professionally and personally. Very, very interested and, and very excited about history. Very excited about, you know, kinda learning different parts of the country and understanding how people show up given where they are, given where they might be from. Got a couple of kids. Um, we, we like to think that our kids are somewhat interesting. Uh, one of'em lives in Hawaii, I think she's been on this podcast before. Um, and she works in the environmental and conservation space in Hawaii and also does outrigger canoeing competitively in Hawaii. She's been there about four or five years now. I. And then our son does software sales by day, but he has a pretty successful band by night. And they're, they travel around the country and play indie pop. And they're actually, I was talking to him on the way over here. They're actually driving from Indianapolis to Milwaukee.

Leslie:

Wow. Insane. Uh, for

Jim:

gigs tonight. Insane. And they's gonna end up in Colorado in a few days.

Leslie:

Very cool. Yep.

Jim:

Yeah, it's kind of cool. So, um, I love to love to do a lot of reading, like to do some hiking, like to just kind of go out and travel a lot. And, um, I'm a big urban hiker. I love to explore cities. Yeah. And, um, just kind of, you know, enjoy those kinds of things. Mm-hmm.

Leslie:

How about professionally?

Jim:

Professionally? Um, so I currently work at the state of Indiana. I'm the Chief Operating Officer of the Department of Child Services, which is the agency that, that, that works in child welfare, adoption, foster care, child support, and various other things in that, in that universe. Um, I've been around public sector world for the bulk of my career for about 35 years now, uh, which is really hard to believe. It's been that long. And I've worked, I've been a consultant most of the time, um, been on both the business side and the technology side. So I'm one of those weird people who can kind of be conversant and, and, um, able to operate in both spaces and kinda see the intersections. I. Between those two, um, between those two areas, worked across state government. I've been in, I've been in now of course, child services. I've worked in, um, revenue, so like tax collection. Um, that's always a fun one that people are always like, Ooh, you're a tax collector. Someone has to do it. Um, worked in, uh, corrections. I've worked in bureau motor vehicles. Oh, I've worked in transportation and worked in aging. Worked in health and human services. And of course worked in, worked in general technology, so very deep background, um, and have done, had a couple of consulting since in energy and pharmaceuticals as well. So pretty, pretty varied background, but the through line has always been, uh, in the public service space.

Leslie:

Okay. Okay. So I heard someone who's very curious, like very much like to explore, discover.

Jim:

Yep.

Leslie:

Um, strong family connections. Uh, professional work mostly in, in public sector,

Jim:

correct.

Leslie:

Both kind of working within the government, but also outside as a consultant working for Okay.

Jim:

Yeah. I had my own company for about 11 years. It was, was an independent consultant, um, and integrated and partnered up with various folks, so depending on the needs of the project and the client, so, yeah. Nice. Yeah, so I've got a little bit of an entrepreneurial streak in me and. I tend to, when I'm on the inside, when I'm actually working for an organization, I tend to be a little bit of an, an intrapreneur, uh, trying to figure out ways to, you know, Hey, let's not do things the way we've always done'em. Let's actually try to think about things differently.

Leslie:

Yeah. Well, I would love to probe into. How, and if purpose kind of influences that. Sure. But before we go there, a question I ask everyone.

Jim:

Okay.

Leslie:

Is, do you have a life's purpose, personally,

Jim:

a life's purpose? That's a great question. Was thinking about that on the way over and, and Yes, I do. Um, life's purpose is as always goes back to family. Um, and being there for them and being, being the best version of me that I can be. For them and, and recognizing that over time as families change, as we, as individuals change, the core purpose stays the same. Some of the edges of it and some of the manifestations of it, depending on the season change. So, you know, kids when they're in their twenties are a little bit different than Yeah. Kids when they're in their, you know, elementary school years or their high school years. My wife and I are going into 37 years of marriage this year. And, you know, marriages that are 37 years old are different than marriages when they're five years old. Great. All seasons Uhhuh, but they have different needs. Um, so the purpose shows up a little bit different every, every season.

Leslie:

Yeah. But it's, but it's, it's always centered in family. Absolutely. And Absolutely. And the way it shows up evolves Yep. As the family unit evolves. Exactly.

Jim:

Exactly. And family units, um, in my experience, they, they evolve a little bit too. And, and by that I mean not just the blood units. But the, the friends that come and go as well, uh, during the different times of your life and the different, you know, opportunities that, that the universe presents.

Leslie:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks for sharing your purpose with us. Sure, sure. Let's dive into purpose in the workplace. Let's start pretty broad and then we will, um, we'll narrow in from there. Sounds good. From your experience and your perspective, how does purpose show up in the workplace?

Jim:

Um, I. It, it, it varies a lot. I mean, we, we all know from, we've worked for some folks that their purposes, they, they, for whatever their world is, they show up because it's a job that they have and they need to come in, do the job, and it's. It's a transactional experience from I show up and give you time, you give me money, we, we part at the end of the day and then we do it all over again. That's one purpose and that's a very, very great purpose. Yeah. Um, for me, purpose in the workplace, um, especially given what I'm currently doing at the state with the Department of Child Services, is really about two things. One is finding ways to care for. The folks that are on the teams that I work with, teams, not only the teams that report to me, but the teams that, that I work with around, um, our agency around the state and even outside of the state because we have a lot of partners outside of the state and, and figuring out how do I, how do I. How do I help make their lives easier? How do I make it easier for them to do their jobs so that they can serve the population that we serve, which is the most vulnerable Hoosier children and their families? Um, that's one major, major purpose for me. Another major purpose is, um, really figuring out a way to organize chaos, make systems work better. I've always been. I, I didn't realize it when I was younger, but I've always been a pretty big systems thinker. Okay. And looking for ways to, to make the mousetrap work better and, and how does all that fit together? And how can, how can we smooth that out so that people can have a maximum experience so that they can show up and do their jobs in the most maximum way for their customers. Yeah. Whatever those customers are. Yeah. And that has always been something that I've been kind of just. Relentlessly drawn to, I'm, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm the guy that organizes the silverware drawer. I'm the guy that makes sure that the plates are all in the right spot. I'm the guy that will walk by and straighten the place mats on the table and, and those little things. I also try to do them with organizations that I'm involved with. Um, not just unilaterally, but with the folks that are, that are around the organization and, and to facilitate conversations and facilitate. Ideas and then to facilitate execution. Right. Of, you know, making the place mat straight.

Leslie:

Yeah. So I heard, purpose in the workplace is really about the, the, the role of the individual in their job. Yeah. And, and it could be, my purpose is to come and perform a job and get a paycheck and it's transactional. Yeah. But in your case, I was hearing more. Alignment with your strengths, your interests, your being who you are. Right, right. And, and fulfilling those. Right. In a workplace where you also benefit with a paycheck.

Jim:

Well, absolutely. That, that is a thing. Um, one of the things that I found as I've, as I've moved, you know, further in my career and, you know, kind of being closer to the, I, I think I did a calculation that if I, if my career were a golf course, I think right now I'm on. Whole 15 or so, so kind of closer to the, closer to the end of the course and the, uh, than the beginning of the course. But as I've moved further along, I've also really gotten excited about helping people that I work with figure out how, what excites them, what's their purpose in the workplace. And, and I think as you, as you get further in your career, as you. You know, maybe if you are, are, are privileged enough, like I've been to move into leadership roles. It's a responsibility to help folks figure out what their purpose is. If someone is playing right field, but they're a better shortstop, help them get to play shortstop. If someone's playing shortstop at their better first base person, help them get to first base. Yeah. That is absolutely a responsibility. Yeah, and if you can find people and help people get to those realizations and then to help actually make that happen for'em, then guess what? What the organization does, how the organization does the outcomes, the organ, the organization achieves. All raise. Right? They all get better. And guess what? People feel a little bit more comfortable.

Leslie:

Right?

Jim:

And that means they're probably gonna feel a little bit happier in their jobs. Yeah, which is important.

Leslie:

So I wanna put an exclamation point on this.'cause what I heard is purpose is leadership. It is a leadership responsibility. Hundred percent. Whether you are the leader or an individual contributor,

Jim:

100%.

Leslie:

It's still an opportunity and it is how you get the most out of your team.

Jim:

Yep, exactly. And, and it is the responsibility of someone if they're an, if you're, again, privileged enough to be in the leadership role, it is your responsibility to go to your team member. 95%, 95% of the journey is on the leader to go to the team member. Right? Not 95% of the journey is on the team member to come to the leader. Mm-hmm. That is absolutely anathema to the way that I believe it operates, and I certainly wouldn't operate that way. So can you say

Leslie:

a little bit more about this? So the leader going to the team member in terms of helping to understand their purpose or to say a little bit more, getting to

Jim:

know'em, getting to know'em as people? I really, really like to get to know folks. You know, Hey, where are you from? Right? What's your, what's your world look like? What do you like to do outside of work? You know, get to know folks. What, what excites you? What's your hobby? If you weren't here, what would you be doing? Um, if you weren't doing this job, what other job? What did you think you might be doing? What interests you? And in getting to know folks, it helps put together the fabric of, you know, and organizations are never. Like one single piece of fabric. It's never a bla a big blanket made out of a single piece of fabric. It's a quilt made out of the individual squares that are the different people in the organization. Love. Right. I love

Leslie:

that visual. Yes.

Jim:

So understand the makeup of the squares and how they fit together to make up the quilt and you get a better thing that will keep you warm. Right. So it's really incumbent on the leader to go understand those individuals as people. Then help understand, oh, this is the type of team that, that we're working with. This is what excites them because that influences what the direction one might choose to go in and one, and what might choose collectively to ideate on, and then to actually put plans together to go make it happen.

Leslie:

Yeah. So I am hearing a lot about individual purpose. We're talking about individual purpose and. And how your strengths, you look at living those out and then as a leader looking to understand that there's also purpose of the business mm-hmm. Or purpose of the team. I think of that as the collective purpose, sure,

Jim:

sure.

Leslie:

What importance does that have over this kind of getting to know the individual and their purpose out of the two blend together?

Jim:

Sure, sure. So sports metaphor, alert, um, if the business is basketball,

Leslie:

uhhuh,

Jim:

getting to know folks and understanding. What their interest is. And if you find out that you've got a team of folks that are more interested in baseball, then that influences how the, how that team can affect the purpose of the business. Probably not gonna be the best basketball team that you're gonna have. I'm, I'm a whopping five foot six on a low gravity day. I am not the guy that's, you're gonna hire to go, hi, dunk a basketball. Mm-hmm. Ain't gonna happen. Just not gonna. And if you do, well the good luck. That's a bad choice on your part. So you've gotta understand who your team is and what they're interested in, and, and then bounce that up against what game you're playing, right? What, what the purpose of the organization is, and, and try to find the best alignment as you possibly can. And sometimes it's going, this is what we think the purpose of the organization is. Where's the wiggle room to bring it closer to the team? Sometimes it's, Hey, team, let me help you understand. Let's, let's collectively understand the purpose of the organization and how do we see ourselves as that. As that team, as that quilt show up to meet that purpose. Right? Um, and then if we, if we don't have a great overlap with it, or, or as much overlap as we need, what else do we need?

Leslie:

Uhhuh,

Jim:

how do we, how do we close that? How do we close that gap? How do we, how do we cover that with the blanket or the quilt a little bit better? Right?

Leslie:

So it's a, I mean, I'm envisioning two circles that start to intersect. It's a Venn diagram business purpose. Yes. Hundred

Jim:

percent.

Leslie:

And the more that they can overlap, the better. Sure. And sometimes it's a pulling of one side or a pushing of the other. Exactly.

Jim:

Exactly. And, and, and when you get a team that. Feels the purpose of, and then you get that intersection with their individual purpose aligning with the collective purpose. Those circles can overlap more. Mm-hmm. And they can get a little bit more pliable, a little bit more flexible for the places that maybe they don't naturally intersect. Mm-hmm. They actually can kind of work it out a little bit so that it actually does intersect.

Leslie:

Right. Yeah.

Jim:

So that's a, that's a, which is why it's so important for. Folks to understand, to know that you as a leader, understand what they're interested in and what motivates'em and what excites'em and who they are as people. People want to be seen. We want to be seen. We are wired to want to be seen, right? So it's important that that doesn't just happen at home. It happens at the workplace as well. And then. When folks feel seen, not only will they see you be, feel seen better as you, as a, with you as a leader, they'll see each other better. Mm-hmm. And the best thing, the best thing is when teams start working on stuff. And frankly, as a leader, I don't even know about it or when I do know about it, it's, it's, it's, here's the good report and the thing that we just did. They're

Leslie:

proactive. They're proactive. Yeah. They take initiative. Exactly. Yes. Yeah,

Jim:

exactly. And that, that. That is more likely to have when people understand their purpose and how that intersects with the organization's purpose.

Leslie:

Yeah. And as you're talking about that, I'm, I'm imagine these two circles, I'm imagining one approach for pulling them over is this dialogue. It's getting to know them, it's understanding them, it's um, helping them feel seen, heard, belong, like they belong. Yep. That they're important. Yeah. And that helps them feel a stronger connection to the Yeah. The business purpose.

Jim:

Exactly. And, if you learn something about what they like to do outside of work. Mm-hmm. Sometimes you find out that, wow, you know, I know you'd love to do this thing outside of work. There's a thing over here inside of work that kinda is similar.

Leslie:

That's right.

Jim:

Hey, what about, what about having that conversation and then. That makes them kind of, oh wow, I like to do this over here and I get to do this at work. Right. You know, that old, what is that old classic saying if you find the thing you love, you never work a day in your life. Well, part of that is helping folks find that and helping folks see those, see those opportunities Yes. Um, in their lives.

Leslie:

Right. And sometimes. It's not obvious. Sometimes it does require us to have dialogue, conversation

Jim:

mm-hmm.

Leslie:

In order to, um, to uncover those and create, create opportunities or, or whatnot. Exactly.

Jim:

Exactly. Um, I've had team members, I have a couple of team members over the years that, um, we're extremely strong graphic artists and they love that creative part Well. Mm. Every organization needs to communicate. We're, most of us are visual learners. Mm-hmm. What if you take the thing that you love to do in graphic arts, and maybe we can apply it in the workplace a little bit. Right. And you get a love to do that thing at the workplace while advancing communications and helping folks understand things.

Leslie:

Yeah. Wow.

Jim:

How about, how about that? Let's go do that.

Leslie:

Can we talk about purpose in government? Absolutely. When you're working. Absolutely. The government. How does purpose show up in the government?

Jim:

Oh my gosh, that's a huge question. Well go. Well, government's big. So like any big organization. It's really a lot of different organizations that come together, Uhhuh to form the government. Yeah. Whether you're talking local government, you know, cities, counties, state level government like Indiana or other states, um, or national level go level government. Um, and even there are international, you know Right. Collectives, right. Yeah. So, um, purpose is always there. Yeah. Um, and. Each agency that makes up the, the, the quilt of the government is, has its own purpose. And, and what I've noticed over the years, especially as someone who's consulted in a lot of different types of government agencies, and I've consulted in 23 different state governments as well. So I've seen different ways to do government across the country, um, at the state level. And a lot of times folks will select into agencies. Their alignment with the, of their personal things that they're interested in. Okay. With what the agency's stated objectives are Right. What their purpose is. So department of natural resources. A pretty good chance of a lot of those folks are gonna like, they like to be outside, they like to, right. They like to work in parks, they like to do things, you know, in that space. Mm-hmm. Um, you, you go to an organization like Door, you'll find people who like to work in with numbers. They like to work with accounting and things like that. Um, and those are gross generalizations of course, but. You'll probably find more folks in the, in the, with accounting interests in an organization like dor, like Department of Revenue, sorry. Um, than, and you'll find folks that might be a little bit more, I want to do park things right in, in DNR, Department of Natural Resources. So you'll see that and you'll see that alignment of purpose. Um, with folks. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and again, you'll, you'll see folks, especially folks that have been around, uh, government for a long time, they, they very much view themselves as not as state employees. But as public servants. Yeah. Um, a lot of folks that are, that, that work in the public, servants in the public space, they're making a choice to be there. Mm-hmm. Um, because it's interesting to them. It's, it's, I, I find the government work fascinating. Right. Um, and I find it very, very compelling. And I like the, I like the purpose of it. I like the puzzle of it. Mm-hmm. And it, it, it's what gets me up every day and it's like, oh, this is great. Let's go do that.

Leslie:

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I'm hearing. That the individual purpose varies depending on the agency mm-hmm. The organization, but naturally, their purpose attracts individuals that have that interest. And those individuals also tend to view themselves as service oriented.

Jim:

Right. Exactly. Exactly. That's a, thing that, you often find in, in, in that space mm-hmm. Is folks that really see themselves as, as public servants. And, and we, we were, um, at a, at a graduation for family case managers and our director talked a lot about, Hey, this is the beginning of a very big public service aspect of your career. Think of yourselves as public servants, not as DCS employees.

Leslie:

Right.

Jim:

And, and that changes the mindset.

Leslie:

Right? Absolutely.

Jim:

Yep.

Leslie:

So you have, you've spent most of your career in government

Jim:

Yes. In and around government. Yes.

Leslie:

Um, is it fair to say you've spent your career inside working for the government, but also outside in private sector? Yes. Any differences there?

Jim:

Yeah. Um, absolutely. There, there are differences. Um, but I think at the end of the day, the differences aren't as great as folks think they are.

Leslie:

Okay.

Jim:

And the reason I say that is that I've been very lucky. I've worked with large pharmaceutical companies and, and folks that work in pharmaceuticals. They're trying to deliver patient outcomes, they're trying to improve patients' lives, and folks are very mission oriented to that. Um, and, and that is not super far from the orientation of folks who work for the government. Right. You know, public service. Mm-hmm. Um, I've worked in the energy industry and folks are. Trying to deliver the necessary thing that is energy in the way that our, our lives and our cities and our communities operate. Um, so constantly relentlessly looking to figure out how do we do this better? How do we maximize it? Um, and that purpose is not super far from. Folks who show up to do public service, right? So I haven't had the opportunity to work, I've never looked, worked in large retail or anything like that, so I can't really speak to that. But I think when, when folks are finding their opportunities, finding how they show up and wherever their organization is, we all want to naturally see what's our purpose and how does that relate to mm-hmm. What our organization is doing and how do we feel about that.

Leslie:

Yeah,

Jim:

so, so I think, I think the. The through line there is that as people, we want that purpose alignment.

Leslie:

Mm-hmm. And what if we don't find it?

Jim:

Uh, great question. Um, if we don't find it, boy, that's a, the thing that I would say is, is you've got to have that dialogue with yourself. You've gotta have the dialogue with your team. You've gotta have that conversation and say, is this, is this where I should be? Mm-hmm. Do, do I understand my purpose enough? I would say, you know, avoid the temptation for knee-jerk reaction. Right. Um, because if you don't understand your purpose, then how do you know that you're really in the wrong spot?

Leslie:

Exactly.

Jim:

So understanding that purpose is a really big thing,

Leslie:

right? Yeah. So start with that. Yeah. Kind of self understanding and awareness and. A

Jim:

hundred percent. Yeah, yeah. Look, gotta gotta look inward. Talk to the people that care about you and you know, just try to have, try to have that understanding. Mm-hmm. You know, we've all been in those journeys, especially if you've, when a little bit older, you've all had, we've all had those conversations, those moments in our lives where we're like. Where I supposed to be.

Leslie:

Oh yeah. I've had that many a times.

Jim:

Well, we haven't. You haven't lived if you haven't, so, right.

Leslie:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I have met people, and you mentioned this earlier, that the workplace. Enables them to do their purpose outside of work. Mm-hmm. So the workplace might be more transactional for them in terms of, I come to get a paycheck so that I can do this. Mm-hmm. This other important thing in my life and Yep. Because of that work is really important too.

Jim:

E Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And, and, and I can think of a few folks that I've known over the years that. That they, they have their day job allows'em to take care of a family member. Mm-hmm. And, and it is a, it is a very strong connection and, and they love the day job. In, in some cases they love the day job because of the day job. And that's a great, that's a, that's the best place. But they love it because it also allows them to take care of that family member. Right. And, and that also is a strong purpose. There's nothing wrong with that,

Leslie:

right? Absolutely.

Jim:

Yep.

Leslie:

Why talk and bring purpose into the workplace? What? What are the benefits of purpose in work in the workplace?

Jim:

I think at the end of the day, as people, we want to know that when we get up in the morning and when we go to bed at night, we've made a difference. Mm-hmm. I think we're, I think we want, I think we want that and. That difference can be really big. It can be really small, however you define big and small. I think understanding purpose in the workplace is that it's a way to collectively find a way to make that difference day in and day out. Mm-hmm. And. And I think that's really, really fantastic. I think that's what we, what we as humans want is what we need. Yeah. Um, and at least for me, that is why I've been in the government space as long as I've been in the government space because I find it extremely compelling. Mm-hmm. I just always have.

Leslie:

Yeah. Is there a benefit in that to the business? Uh,

Jim:

private side business or just the bus?

Leslie:

Either like, so what I heard is why purpose? Well, purpose is because as humans we want to have meaning in our life and we wanna do things with our, so that feels very much, um, you know, an individual outcome. But what's the, what's the benefit to the business of that for the having individuals feel that way?

Jim:

Because then they're motivated to make things better. They're motivated to help the business achieve its purpose, whatever that is. Mm-hmm. And, and I, again, I think collectively when you've got, you know, you think about, um, especially now we're kind of coming to the, the backside of winter here, winter here in Indianapolis, and you know, we have ice storms, cars slide off the road. Where am I going with this? Well. Do you ever see very often a car getting pushed out of an icy situation by one person? Nah. Usually there's a few people that will come together and push it out, right? Mm-hmm. When those folks are showing up and they have that purpose, they can push the car to where it needs to be better, right? That's a metaphor for with folks are showing up and understanding their purpose at work. Then if the business is to move the car, they can collectively move the car better.

Leslie:

Yes. Yeah. And as you were, um, saying that I've of course visualized the car in my mind's eye and these people coming together and, and thought one of the things. So season one was all about people with a clear purpose, who are actively pursuing it as individuals. And one of the things that I learned is they, they take responsibility. They don't let fear get in their way. They face fear. They do it scared, but they, they take the responsibility. Sure. And that's what I am imagined in my head. These people coming together and taking responsibility

Jim:

Correct.

Leslie:

To, to help to solve the problems.

Jim:

Yep.

Leslie:

You talked earlier about. Um, it's really great when the team starts to do it on their own. That's another responsibility example too. Absolutely.

Jim:

Collective responsibility. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Absolutely. And, and, and I think when folks find themselves in a place where their individual purpose intersects with organizational purpose, then that is where. The stars of responsibility are born. Mm-hmm. And that starts creating a really great loop. You know, one feeds the other, one feeds the other and just gets stronger and stronger.

Leslie:

Absolutely. Yeah. So what advice would you give to a, a people leader that has a group of people that may not seem connected? To the purpose of the team or the company? Any advice that you would share for that type of person?

Jim:

Sure. Um, if you find yourself in a circumstance where folks may not be connecting with their individual purposes and then collectively with the organization's purpose, I think it, that's where you have to lean in as much as you can to understand the individuals, understand the people help draw the line to the purpose. Um. Storytelling is a very, very big part of leadership and, and helping folks make meaning of the circumstances that they find themselves in, and then the purpose that goes with that. So every one of us has our own story. Every organization has their its own story, and realistically, we all have multiple stories and organizations have multiple stories. Finding that and, and telling that and vision casting for that. At the individual level, and then if you're lucky, and if you work hard with good purpose driven storytelling, you can bring folks closer together and get them to see that. Mm-hmm. It won't happen all the time. It won't be easy. There might be a few folks who just aren't gonna get there, and that's okay. Because their purpose and their story might be somewhere else. Right. So then your job becomes to help them find that in the best, most compassionate way possible. Mm-hmm.

Leslie:

So, and what I hear there, so one, get closer to them, really understand them, but also, um, the intention is for them, you know? Right. If, if they can't connect, then help them elsewhere.

Jim:

That's right. Yeah. That's right. That's right. And it's. Never about you. It's never about you. Mm-hmm. It's about the team that's in your care.

Leslie:

Yeah. That's a, yeah. I got goosebumps on that one because there's, there's, there's all types of leaders, right? And sometimes it does feel like it's, it's about the leader and not always about the, the people. So. Leadership advice. It's not about you, it's about the group. Right? The collective group.

Jim:

That's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. And guess what, collectively folks can do some pretty amazing things. That's right. The boundaries of human creativity and human ingenuity are limitless.

Leslie:

Yeah. Any other advice that you have on the topic of purpose in the workplace?

Jim:

Find your purpose. Read. Explore, think, wander around nature, whatever it takes. Mm-hmm. You know, constantly find it and, and recognize that as you go through life, your purpose might change a little bit and that's okay. Mm-hmm. That's okay. Absolutely. And, and just recognizing that is really important and, and leaning into it and being okay with that, you know? So that's, that's really all I got. It's nothing, nothing super, nothing super insightful, just. Be open, be flexible. Right. Um, and, and listen.

Leslie:

Thank you so much for joining. I have enjoyed this. I am taking a lot away from this and I know our audience will too, so thank you.

Jim:

Awesome. Thanks Leslie.

Leslie:

One thing stands out in this episode, and that is the profound responsibility that leaders hold for cultivating purpose within their organizations. This responsibility is true whether you're a leader within the government sector. Or outside of the government sector. In the workplace, Purpose isn't solely about individual fulfillment. It's about collective alignment in shared vision. And leaders are responsible for guiding this journey, ensuring that purpose becomes a unifying force that drives meaningful impact. Jim, thank you for being on this show, and thanks to all of you for joining us on this episode of Purpose Project. May it inspire you to reflect on your role in nurturing purpose within the sphere of influence that surrounds you. Purpose Project is brought to you for education and for entertainment purposes. This podcast is not intended to replace the advice that you would receive from a licensed therapist or doctor or any other qualified professional.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Leslie Pagel

Host