S1E14: Living Without a Life's Purpose with Ethan Beute

In this episode of the Purpose Project, host Leslie Pagel and guest Ethan Beute delve into the nuances of living without a singular life's purpose. They explore ideas on finding meaning, the significance of context, and the question of whether it's enough to live a life that role models integrity and the Golden Rule. They discuss the impact of society's individualistic view on the concept of purpose, and reflect on how personal and collective motivations intersect. Ethan shares his unique perspective on how to navigate life by focusing on the next right thing and finding meaning in everyday actions, rather than adhering to a monolithic life goal.

00:00 Introduction to Purpose Project

00:31 Meet Ethan Beute

01:49 Exploring Life's Purpose

02:17 The Placebo Effect and Purpose

03:11 Personal Reflections on Purpose

05:46  Three Characteristics 

07:12 Finding Meaning in Activities

13:23 The Role of Solitude and Reflection

26:21 Purpose vs. Passion

35:48 Concluding Thoughts

Follow Ethan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanbeute/

Purpose Project is a research study on the topic of life's purpose. You can follow along in the making of Purpose Project:
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Transcript

0:05

Let's face it. Not everyone is living with a life's purpose, and that is what we explore on this episode. Hi, my name is Leslie Pagel, and this is Purpose Project. Our guest on the show is Ethan Beute. And our topic is living without a life's purpose. It's a fascinating conversation that you won't want to miss. Let's take a listen.

Leslie: 0:31

Ethan, thank you so much for being here with me on Purpose Project. I'm looking forward to our conversation on the topic of life's purpose.

Ethan: 0:39

Uh, me too. I'm excited to see where it goes. I love that you're doing this and I am honored by the invitation to participate.

Leslie: 0:46

Thanks for being here. Before we get into the topic at hand, tell us a little bit more about yourself. Who is Ethan?

Ethan: 0:54

Uh, gosh, that's a really big and fun way to ask that. Um, so I'm a husband and a father. I live pretty simply. I like to be outside. I like to run and walk and hike. I'm a Midwesterner. Who's lived in Colorado for 18 years now. professionally, I guess I would call myself a communication and marketing professional. I've written a couple of books. I've hosted three shows. I currently host one of them, or maybe one and a half, spent the first half of my career running marketing inside local TV stations. and then got involved with a software startup and helped pioneer the video, email and video messaging space, which was a joy. And at a certain point, I felt compelled to do something different and I've now landed, in another company that's been acquired by a company that everyone's heard of Zillow. so I'm now, now Zillow, learning and teaching aspects of the real estate business.

Leslie: 1:44

Well, thanks for sharing a little bit about you. I am curious. We're here to talk about the topic of life's purpose. Have you discovered your life's purpose?

Ethan: 1:55

Uh, no, it feels too singular or specific or monolithic for me. So no, I mean, I, and we'll get into all of this, I'm sure, but, I recognize the importance of purpose. there's certainly better health outcomes, in all situations, in life outcomes for people who have identified a purpose. I also know that or I think, I don't know this for a fact. my assumption is that the placebo effect doesn't really work if that it's a placebo. And so like, there's this kind of like manufactured aspect of it to me. I take the word purpose to be like really important and meaningful. I think it's very, very deep. That's where I go right away with it. You know, essentially why are we here and how are we supposed to live? I think we treat purpose in today's society and culture as, what is my individual personal life purpose? And I, and I mean, just baked into that as the idea that there's no, you know, collective. We're a very individualistic society. And so like, I don't know that I, as an individual human being who was fortunate enough to be born to the people I was born to, and the place that I was born in at the time that I was born, uh, that. I just feel fortunate in all of that. And I guess I've taken most of this journey as a, what's the next right thing? What's the next interesting thing? so I guess at some level you could say I'm being, reactive to the environment. I don't think that's a desirable thing. So anyway. I know I didn't make one single point there. I'm just you made a lot of points actually, Um, I, I'm just exploring this idea of purpose with you. And, and again, that's one of the reasons I feel privileged by the invitation is that. It's a really, really interesting topic and it's, I haven't necessarily struggled with it, but I certainly haven't found myself resolved and say, this is my life's purpose. Cause I think it's often conflated with, uh, ambition, and personal ambition. I think a lot of people are on what they think is a holy quest. It's my life's purpose, but it turns out that really, it's, it's quite self serving. And I don't think that's, The purpose of our lives or the purpose of defining a purpose.

Leslie: 4:01

I do want to just take a moment and summarize what I heard. Cause I heard a little bit of it feels big. It feels like this, this overwhelming thing. you also talked about how you've seen some of the research behind it that shows it has some benefits, living longer and things like that. You mentioned a placebo effect, which I want to understand that point a little bit more, what you were talking about there. and then you also talked about this idea of. when we think about our life's purpose, it, it seems very individualistic and, and not collective.

Ethan: 4:42

Yeah. Which isn't necessarily right or wrong. It's just reflective of how we treat it in our society, in our culture, um, placebo, I'm just saying like, I'm not sure that it's something that we prescribe or assign ourselves or if it's something that, uh, that is innate. Um, and, and maybe it's revealed to us, maybe it isn't, but that it's something that's happening regardless. And so this idea of like, if I assign something to myself, it's got a level of, uh, awareness and consciousness to it that I don't know is as powerful as this thing. That's just like, it's deeper. It's innate. It's baked into us. It's been there all along and maybe it's revealed to us. Maybe it isn't. Um, Um, maybe we discover it, maybe it isn't, but I think a lot of this exercise for a lot of people, especially again, when it gets bled into, in particular, like the words I'll use are ambition and, or like a commercial motivation or a, material motivation, it distances itself from what I think purpose is about, but that's just my own conception of it.

Leslie: 5:45

Yeah. One of the things that, I have learned is some of the researchers define purpose as having three elements and one is, one is goal assertion. So that is about achieving goal. The other is about, doing something for purposes of others. so that kind of gets to the collective nature, when it's, not for self, but for others. And then the third is purpose is, when we do something that's personally meaningful, it means something to us, but it's for others and we're trying to achieve something.

Ethan: 6:23

Yeah. Okay. So a couple of things on that with regard to me and, why I've. launched into this conversation the way that I have like, you know, and I, to say that I'm not goal oriented isn't fair, but I will also just add as just a minor detail just to characterize my relationship to it, I run and I've been running for decades. I don't run with a clock. I don't really know how far I run. I would never pay money to start at some starting line and finish at some finish line and get the t shirt for it. Like I run for like personal reasons. I like, I enjoy the experience. It does a lot of different things for me. But I don't really care about how far or how fast and how I'm doing relative to other people. So that's a little bit there. And then. The meaning, like I find, I'm looking for meaning all of the time. Um, and I find it in a lot of places. And when I think about the work that I've done, some of it, professional and paid some of it, just things that I do myself. I characterize it by like fun, interesting, and challenging. When something is fun and interesting and challenging. I find that like engaging and meaningful and something I want to continue to pursue. And at different times in my life and my career, if one of those three is missing or out of balance, then, it starts to come like, is it time to move on or is it time to do something different? Or what can I change about my role or about the situation, to keep those things in balance? And I guess, that's another approach to, uh, finding meaning or purpose in what I'm doing is that it's, it's all of those things, but I don't know that there, that, that, that levels up to my own conception of defining a life's purpose,

Leslie: 8:07

is it, and you mentioned this, that it feels big, it feels overwhelming. It also feels like it's singular. Um, yeah,

Ethan: 8:18

yeah. It's like, like my whole life is for this one clearly defined purpose. Like I just don't life is like. It's so mysterious and wonderful and interesting that I feel like it minimizes the experience or so this is the tension, I guess, in that for me go a little bit along for the ride. See what it has to offer. Pursue things that feel healthy and right and good. Connect with people who feel healthy and right and good and keep learning and growing and having fun and staying intellectually and physically engaged in what's going on, uh, spiritually engaged if that's, where you're being lit, in that way or by that person or whatever. On the other side, progress or achievement or outcome, or let's just go to impact. is certainly threatened by this idea of going along for the experience and seeing what it has to offer. Not that you can't achieve in that first path that I described, but certainly if you defined a singular life purpose and just really committed to it. a great deal more of your time and energy to this thing or in this direction or toward this outcome or this impact, you'd certainly, make more progress or make more impact. But, and I don't know if it's my fear of failure. Um, but I just don't feel compelled to limit my experience in this one go round, in pursuit of, of one direction and making impact only in that zone.

Leslie: 9:54

If you take that element out of the concept of life's purpose and we make it plural. We have purposes in our life and, they can come and go as we move through life. Does that change any of your thinking?

Ethan: 10:13

Um, not really. I mean, I, I, at that point then it doesn't, um, it doesn't do the same job. I don't think in that case, I feel like we're kind of like retrofitting Or, or current fitting something as opposed to, you know, when I think about the purpose, it's like, where are we going? And, and why are we here? And so it's what's my direction, and motivation and intended outcome and purpose. You know, I think the exercise itself is to orient oneself in a direction. I think otherwise it becomes kind of project work. Um, but I, or, or maybe you're describing my approach, which really is. thing for me right now. And I, I wouldn't, I personally wouldn't level that up to, you know, my life's purpose, um, or say that my, although I have used this language now that you've gotten me like deep into this is like, I've used that language before, like in a previous role, um, I was, I was at a company for almost a dozen years, but. In that I had many seasons and one of the questions I would ask myself, Is my work done here? Have I done what I'm supposed to do here? And I guess another way to ask that question is, is my purpose in this context served, uh, is this, is this chapter worth, putting a period on closing and turning the page? Um, so I guess I have thought in that way too.

Leslie: 11:31

Yeah. Which that feels very reflective as opposed to, proactive. I don't know what the opposite is.

Ethan: 11:40

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

Leslie: 11:41

Yeah. So the, the question that I've seen that comes up in this view of life's purpose flows throughout our life is what is life asking of me now? To me, that question takes it out of the project base and more of a, where do I need to be spending my time, my energy, my care, my concern with what's happening in my life today, Does that change anything for you?

Ethan: 12:11

Uh, language I've used for that is like, what's the next right step or what's the next right thing? Because it's all we can really do, at some level. So yes, but it also, again, takes away some of the fun and. Challenge of figuring out the greater purpose, which again, I, I mean, obviously I'm willing and able to, and I like dwelling in, the theoretical or the philosophical, I like wondering about these things. That's why I don't have a commitment to any of these things. And I wouldn't say I'm a subscriber to anyone's school of thought or anyone practice either. So it definitely changes the conversation around it and can make it more useful for a different type of person. and I would entertain that.

Leslie: 12:50

Yeah. The other thing that, I'm struck by is I'm envisioning you Ethan's Out there running out there, hiking out there, being in the environment. And when I envision that I envision someone going inside, thinking inside, letting their mind wander, letting their mind be quiet. And I've found that that, action is what I'm starting to call a prerequisite for purpose. To find your purpose whether it's in the moment or for your whole entire life this understanding of self this self awareness is necessary and so i'm I find myself curious someone that spends a lot Well one I might be wrong on how your mind is spent when you're out there running and walking But if it is spent more quieting and listening and allowing your mind to wander and this not connection to a purpose. In life anyway, I don't know if that makes any sense. And if it does, if you have a reaction to that,

Ethan: 14:00

Uh, I think there's a very strong historical basis for repetitive, physical motion and thought. You find that to be a thing and you find it across cultures as well. So there's absolutely something to, um, repetitive physical motion and thought that occurs. Uh, but with, for, for myself in the morning, I'm always running, silently. It's very often allowing my mind to wander. I've tried setting my mind onto a topic to see if I could work something out, but I, I, again, that feels a little bit too forced to me. Uh, so I do let it wander. Uh, occasionally I'll, use a mantra along with it. If I go out for, you know, two and a half, three hours for a morning hike on a Saturday or Sunday morning at a, I always prefer to do it by myself, and usually half the time I'll listen to, uh, podcasts or music and then half the time. Um, I'll just, you know, unplug. Put it all down and, uh, and again, and allow my mind to, do its thing. One of the ways that I think about this is, eating, right? We all know that we should stop eating at a certain point. Even if we're eating really good things, you can eat too much and your body can't digest it. You need to stop, and allow it to digest. And I think the same thing is true of our minds. I think in the way that we live today, we're constantly consuming ideas and information, even if it's something that we generally would regard as more healthy, like reading a book, or whether it's something that we would regard as more junk food, like just constantly flipping shorts or reels or whatever the case may be. All of those things, I think you would not be doing yourself, well or right, to not take this time to allow your mind to do whatever it needs to do with the ideas and information that are there, but I do know from my own experience, that that time and space. Even if it's just allowing your mind to wander or allowing you to sit in silence and in some sense of solitude, uh, not loneliness, but solitude, uh, that something is really healthy about that.

Leslie: 15:58

Yeah. But the question that I'm wondering is. If the act of doing that helps you discover your purpose, it brings it clarity. And what I'm seeing for you is that's not a part of the outcome of your solidarity, allowing the mind to wander, it's not bringing clarity in your purpose.

Ethan: 16:22

Yeah, no, not necessarily. It does bring clarity in a variety of things. I mean, I've done creative work my entire career, essentially making things that didn't exist before. It's like for about a decade now, I've literally manufactured my own work. What am I going to do this quarter? What am I going to, it's aligned with the greater organization, but essentially I'm responsible for not just manufacturing things out of thin air, but also manufacturing what it is that I'm going to manufacture. Right. And so that, like that creativity requires that space. And I found that like some of the best insights, I guess, like the, the, to help me with the next right step or the next right thing, or to solve that problem, or to answer that question, um, or to close that gap. It occurs to me not at a time that I decide it needs, you know, sometimes you have to make a decision. Like I got to make a decision by three o'clock today. So you just have to make the decision. But in other cases, you, you have the privilege of allowing things to occur to you. And I, that, that's what that process is about for me. I will say, some of the joy and gratitude that I experienced about my, existence. Is found in that process. So meaning like this idea of that, that's the other way to, I think about it too, is like, not, is this thing that I'm doing right now or for the next four years, does it have meaning or does it provide me with meaning? Um, fun and interesting and challenging. Is it those things? Um, I find like, I reflect on what is fun about it or what is interesting about it, or I'm grateful for. The fact that I've been intellectually engaged by this challenge or topic over the past several months and while you're in it, you're just intellectually engaged and challenged. It's in these times where you can reflect back and be and again, this is backward looking that forward looking as you already observed. Um, but that's also part of how I make sure that I guess, um, I'm finding meaning in what I'm doing and I appreciate the opportunity to do what I'm doing. And, and, another word that I don't think I've introduced here that I reflect on a lot is enough. Um, when I think about purpose and ambition and direction and impact and outcome, I often wonder about like, what is enough? Have I done enough? Is this enough? Um, a lot of people reflect on it enough, but like, I think enough is a really interesting question here. And when I think about religion, uh, in general, I think it's a human's collective effort to figure out, why are we here? How are we supposed to live and what happens when we're gone? I would just observe that forever we've been trying to understand these things. And so when I say collective, um, I don't just mean, am I operating in service of other people, but I mean, like, do all of us being here, whether we're all aligned in this one school of thought and practice. Religion or otherwise, or all of us together. Is there a reason for this to be happening? That's where I'm at with purpose. And that's why I struggle with some of the more base commercial personally ambitious, ego driven. Approaches to, to purpose. One of the reasons I went down that line and then I'll wrap it up and give it back to you is, um, the one thing that's common across all philosophies in major world religions who have gone down this road of trying to answer these questions, which at some level is a purpose question or set of purpose questions, um, Is some version of the golden rule. Dozens of them have arrived at some version of the golden rule. And so when I think about enough, I think, is it enough to be the kind of person we want other people to be? And this, this again, kind of gets a little bit at the collective. And is that enough of a purpose? Is it enough of a purpose, a purpose to be this and to model this With and for other people so that other people can experience and enjoy it, but also so that other people can learn it. And so that this becomes normative and cultural and that it becomes passed down because we're modeling this behavior, not just for ourselves and our peers and our friends, but also for our children are in our children's children and our friends, children, and all of this. And so, is that enough? I frankly think we might be in a better place if there's more time and energy and attention focused on that. And, but the question is, is that enough? I would say in. You know, 2024, 2025 United States of America. I don't think that would be satisfactory for a great number of people in terms of, what they seek to achieve modeling right behavior. Like, but I think that's enough.

Leslie: 20:58

Yeah. Well, you're speaking to, one of the overarching conclusions that I'm coming to for now. I mentioned earlier, these three dynamics of, the definition of purpose and I am coming to believe that life's purpose isn't about achievement, it's not about goal attainment, it really is about being. It's about living in a way where our actions. And our behaviors are true to ourselves, to our core, our, our souls. And, and that requires us to do the work inside to understand who is Leslie at her core? What does she believe in? What are her values and what are the actions that she's going to take to, to live those, in the world? So it's more of a state of being. Then it is an accomplishment, it's a state of being that's true to oneself. any reaction to that?

Ethan: 22:06

Uh, integrity and wholeness are definitely part of, satisfaction. I think, um, like real satisfaction, real, appreciation, real. value, real achievement, frankly, is this integrity and wholeness? And it's not just honesty, which I think is the most important thing we can be with ourselves and with other people, um, is honest. Uh, but, but that speaks to that, like that there's a consistency and integrity and wholeness in our way of being. Uh, and I think that is enough.

Leslie: 22:39

Yeah, I do too personally because I, it, it requires though that you do the work on yourself, you know, and I do believe. If we all do that work, if we take the time to quiet our mind, let our mind wander, let us be reflective, however we do it. Um, and that our actions line up with, with our understanding of ourselves, that, that we will do good in the world, we will be driven by. A collective mindset, um, instead of an individual mindset. But yeah, you're getting me into my beliefs here, Ethan.

Ethan: 23:18

Well, I mean, that's why I like this conversation so much. I mean, I don't know that you can have it without that. Otherwise it's, um, let's talk about career planning, right? Not that that's not interesting and useful. And that's a, that's part of the reality that we need to live in. Um, and I've struggled with that a lot, frankly, too. I mean, the things that I'm personally passionate about, um. I think two things in particular to two large areas. One, I think we've become disconnected with the natural environment. I don't think we have sufficient respect for it. I think we we've come to treat it as something separate from ourselves. I think ecology and economy are are false dichotomy. And, and I think the more we use language and behavior to separate ourselves and to remain disconnected from the world that we are truly a part of. Um, and I think we've absolutely lost touch with that. Uh, and I think restoring that connection is the restoring of humanity at some level. And I actually do think it's part of the integrity and wholeness conversation as well. It's not just inward, but where that's just, who am I and what am I about? What matters to me? And what does it mean for me to live rightly? Um, what does it mean to be a virtuous person, but also what does it mean in relation to everything else around me and everyone else around me? Um, so that's one, the other one is, we've obviously become disconnected from one another. I think that also results in a lot of, um, ill outcomes, a variety of them in a lot of different ways. Uh, but the, but the disconnection from our, from our fellow humans, uh, is also a fundamental problem. It's very, very interesting to me. Um, and I think going inward can help, in a lot of different ways. I think we'll arrive at some of these truths again, like when we think about, the golden rule, as it's expressed, um, it's reflected in that, essentially, we're better together, you know,. So those are two big problems, but like, I'm not. I can see aspects of that in my, like, professional work. Uh, but it's not like I'm staying up to the middle of the night and dedicating my weekends to, figuring out my part in solving these things at some point, I've also been overwhelmed by them and just said, I just don't know what's to be done here.

Leslie: 25:32

Right, what I also feel like you say is. I'm going to do my part. I'm going to live my life in a way that is true to the belief that we're all better together, that honors our environment,, it's role modeling really.

Ethan: 25:48

Yeah. But then now here we are back at this conversation of impact. You know, if I really wanted to make progress here, Um, then I need to find a way to, pay the mortgage, keep the fridge full, take a vacation once in a while, both myself and my family and also pursue this thing. That's where I, that's where I give myself permission not to go all in on these. And that's how I arrive at like, is this enough? And I, I moved back and forth between those ideas.

Leslie: 26:20

Yeah. Well, that concept of impact, um, the, the way that I have heard it talked about on Purpose Project is, passion. This idea that we're so passionate. About this thing that we're willing to, stay up, to do the things. and it's when the purpose in my life. And this, my passions come together is how I'm going to achieve this purpose. So any reaction to this concept of passion behind it.

Ethan: 26:55

Yes, absolutely. I mean, it's, it's a hundred percent required. Uh, if you are to, to go down that road, I mean, for me, when I think about it, Um, when I'll just speak to something, something that got you and I connected in the first place is, um, you know, I started the show Chief Evangelist for fun and interest. Like I was interested in it. The door was open. It seems fun and interesting and challenging. And I did that show mornings, nights, and weekends.

Leslie: 27:22

Uh huh.

Ethan: 27:22

And at a certain point, I changed jobs. I realized I needed to immerse myself in this new company, and it fell a little bit behind and then a couple of things happened. My passion was a bit diminished. Um, But, but, you know, I moved on from it and I spend. You know, if I'm doing work on mornings, nights and weekends, which happens regularly for me, it's all been in my current role that I'm, being paid for and the thing that provides the resources for me to do all the other things in my life. The reality of my day to day right now is that if I have four extra hours, I know where they're going to go. Yeah. And it's not to that, it's to this, this other thing that I do. Does that mean I'm more passionate about what I'm doing now? I certainly am. Um, am I more passionate? I don't know. Is it more important long term? I don't know. Does the world need to understand the chief evangelist role? I don't know.

Leslie: 28:19

I don't know. Well, but how about this question? Did your passion for chief evangelist for chief evangelism shift? Did that change?

Ethan: 28:32

Uh, it did. It got watered down a little bit, for a couple of different ways and a couple of different reasons. And so, so now what I'm getting into is this kind of outside motivation, um. You know, is the work being validated or appreciated by enough people in the right way for me to stay interested in it? And then it's like, well, you know, so much wrapped up in it. It's really interesting. Um, but I would say, yeah, obviously my level of interest in energy and passion was reoriented with a change of employers. I'm essentially studying a business model that remains emergent. In one of the most important industries relative to the United States GDP. It's a big topic and it's super interesting. And so I'm like, if I'm going to dedicate a Saturday morning to doing air air quote work, it's going to be in that area. So part of that is like, but part of that is like the integrity issue that we talked about before wholeness. Like I see myself, I present myself. I believe that I model that I am a conscientious, hardworking person that has your interests in mind as my employer, just as I have my own interests in mind. But the benefit that I get out of it among many is that it's fun and interesting and challenging, and that brings me to life,

Leslie: 29:46

Yeah. So what I heard in that Ethan connected to the topic of purpose is sometimes people can get mixed up and My passion is my purpose. And I'm thinking no, they're two separate things. Um,

Ethan: 30:02

yeah, but, but, but you know, it is, it's Boolean as well. So like where they overlap, you're going to make more progress and it's going to be, you know, you're going to be drawn in deeper and faster and all of these other things. Yeah.

Leslie: 30:13

Yeah. So, I'm curious. Purpose Project is the study of life's purpose. It's a research project. That's what it is. And season one was really focused on people that have clarity in their life's purpose. Purpose and they're pursuing it. And I know that I also need to represent people like you that aren't pursuing a life's purpose and it's for these beliefs. And I'm curious from your perspective, I see a whole season dedicated to the other side when purpose isn't clear, you know, when you don't believe in it. What are some of the things from your perspective that. That I should be looking at that. I should be asking, are there things that I should have asked you here that would have gotten a little deeper? Any advice for me?

Ethan: 31:07

Um, I mean, no, nothing that comes to mind and you know, I wouldn't necessarily put myself in a camp, but like I'm a non subscriber in general. Like I'm a, I'm an open and curious person and I want to like, Engage in what's in front of me and I'll debate both sides of any issue just to explore, like if there are two sides of these things. So. Um, you know, I think you're going to find my assumption is that you're going to find a lot more. I don't knows, or, um, I've gone down that road and it hasn't really produced anything or, like it's not around that your purpose isn't around the corner waiting to be found. It's waiting to be discovered, you know? Uh, and that's an active process. And so I think some people either, um, are digging and digging and digging and they're like, it's down here somewhere. Um, or they don't know, or, I don't think anyone would say that purpose doesn't matter or that we don't have any purpose. Um, I think the people who have, uh, arrived at a conclusion that there is no purpose to their lives generally aren't thriving. Um, uh, in general. Um, so I think it's more of an explanation or an exploration of, um, if your purpose isn't clear, why not? Okay.

Leslie: 32:24

Well, it's interesting that you say that because, if anyone's going to have a conversation with me, chances are, I'm going to ask them if they have a purpose, and one of the common responses that I've noticed is. It is, I think so, or I'm not sure. It's this hesitancy as opposed to

Ethan: 32:45

so big it's because like, I don't know if this is the reason I'm here on this earth at this time. Right?

Leslie: 32:52

Yes. And I think what one of the things that where I'm at is changing that paradigm, of life's purpose is really a, of a way of being, we already talked about this, it's about how you live, um, as opposed to like what you accomplish. But I appreciate that, input of seeking to understand. Where the beliefs about purpose really digging into, what's holding you back, what's keeping you back, what are your beliefs.

Ethan: 33:23

I think the questions are, you know, why are we here and how are we supposed to live? Um, I do think it is enough just to be the, be, it is cliche as heck to say, but be the change or be the, Um, the good that you want to see in the world doesn't even need to be changed, but you know, be the change or be the good. and if you happen to be passionate enough and clear enough, that you can devote yourself and ideally you would align it with making a living to, making real progress and making real impact in a specific way. But I do think it's enough. To be present, to be present in good and healthy and positive and constructive ways, that model right behavior for anyone who's paying attention and that allow you to really enjoy and appreciate the experience, uh, that we uniquely have here, uh, as humans today on this earth.

Leslie: 34:16

Yeah. Anything left unsaid on the topic of purpose from your perspective,

Ethan: 34:23

I could go another hour, but like, it's mostly exploring because again, I'm not super clear in these thoughts. And I think that's also, reflective of your motivation and what your accomplishment can be here is that, I think the popular conversation around purpose is generally very self serving and even, material. I think you're obviously coming at it from a different perspective. And even with someone like me, who is, is a relatively reflective person. You know, I'm curious about these things and it's important. But, um, I'm interested in these topics and I don't have answers. I think there are a lot of people out there like that.

Leslie: 34:58

Yeah, you

Ethan: 34:59

already, you already mentioned in the way that people respond to the questions like maybe like things that matter to me or, you know, things, you know, these thoughts that are recurring for me, but I don't know what to do with them or these things that like, like me, but like, what do I do about that? that, you know, or can I align that with my, you know, career and that's, that becomes difficult for a lot of people too. So you wind up settling back into the reality of their situation, which is, you know, the patterns of daily life and getting kids from here to there and showing up for work and doing enough and making the zoom call on time and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Next thing you know, you know, a week's gone, a month's gone, a year's gone. And you're left reflecting again. What am I doing all this for? Right. Right. And it's enough that you're doing it. Exactly. Yeah.

Leslie: 35:47

Yeah. Well, I appreciate you being on the show. I appreciate you, modeling good, in our world and, um, thank you Ethan for being here.

Ethan: 36:00

Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate what you're doing. And again, it was fun and a privilege to be a part of.

Leslie: 36:05

I've listened to this conversation with Ethan over and over, and there are two things that really stand out for me. The first is that while some of us might not be living our lives in pursuit of a purpose, it doesn't mean that we aren't living our lives with meaning. The second is this question that Ethan brought into the show of, is it enough? That question really resonates with me. And it's a question I'm going to continue to ask myself as I pursue my life's purpose, Ethan, thank you for being on the show and thanks to all of you for tuning in. Purpose Project is brought to you for education and for entertainment purposes. This podcast is not intended to replace the advice that you would receive from a licensed therapist or doctor or any other qualified professional.